Prenosim s http://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=63389

I have received multiple PM's regarding my impressions of flying the Delta2, Peak3 and the M6.
Rather than answer those individually I am going to give a personal opinion on those 3 gliders from my point of view. (25 hrs on Delta 2, 40 hrs on Peak 3, 20 hrs on M6)

To give you a little background. I have been flying since 1989. Flew dodgy comp wings in the mid 90's but felt on edge flying them back (with good reason) Did a few PWC's in the 90's, lots of Cat 2 comps, all over the world, recently Pre Europeans, Asian championships.

In the past few years I have owned :
Factor2 - too much work, poor climb
Peak1 and Peak2 - loved them
Artik3 poor scratching, didn't make low saves
Delta2 good all around glider
Peak3 high work load for not a huge performance gain over Delta 2
Mantra6 -so far - excellent performance, A little "soft", Really good traditional en D
I didn't like any of the en C's except the Delta2.
I liked all the Peaks,

As you can see I don't normally keep a glider for long (although I still have my Peak1 as a back up - still the best sink rate around for light coastal days).

I have been talking to a friend who is also flying the Peak3 and he asked the same questions. In summary I did and do like the Peak 3. If the conditions were so rough it was almost un-survivable I would rather be flying that than anything else. I have full confidence in the glider.
Rather than re-iterate everything in those emails I am going to give you the straight unedited emails. They really give the honest impressions:

On 10 February 2014 11:40, Garry Stevenson <geecomp> wrote:

I am not sure if I'm doing the right thing as I really liked the Peak3.
I felt safe on the glider, it is bullet proof.
Handling is excellent, climb is ok, I always make the low saves due to it's superb handling in tight cores.
My ONLY reservation was the workload for the performance.
On first bar the glide is very similar to the Delta 2, M4 or XC2.
On second bar it is considerably faster than all of the above but at the cost of sink rate. It degrades quite a lot.
That is good for escaping cloud suck and belting along at high speed but isn't competitive with the M6 or IP6.
I found at Bright I could leave all those en C / traditional D gliders behind but ended up way lower out the front.

I have bought an M6 for 2 reasons.
Better performance - both on glide and climb in light stuff
Hopefully less work load. I found the P3 quite active and I am quite lazy these days. I don't want to work too hard - even more so if I am not getting any advantage out of it. If the workload was the same but the performance matched the M6 I would have kept it.

I have had about a dozen flights on the M6 and so far it is really nice.
It feels a bit soft (but that is to be expected as comparatively the P3 is almost rigid!) and the control and authority using the D's while on speed isn't at the same level. ( I really liked the 2 liner feel- which surprised me).

I imagine I will get a few collapses occasionally on the M6 vs I got none on the P3 - ever, didn't even hint at it - but I was flying very actively - almost forced to fly that actively as the glider is very sensitive and dynamic.

We have Corryong starting this weekend. I will have a much better idea of what I think of the M6 after that. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that I go back to the Peak 3.
In summary I felt like I was working a lot harder on the Peak 3 than the Delta 2 for marginal performance gains.

Email 2:
I am selling the Peak 3 as it doesn't suit my style of flying. It's strengths are solidity. I have never had such a bullet proof glider. I can't even imagine getting a full frontal and I pushed it to its limits in strong turbulence leaving cloud-base and just hanging on to the rear risers. It taught me a lot about using more bar.
It is great for strong climbs and racing through rough air. Probably the most robust glider I have ever had. It is however quite active and at times tired of the work load. It is not a weak waftey climber but can turn inside the tightest core with ease. Brilliant handling.
Unfortunately I prefer gliders with low work load and the ability to climb in weak conditions and top out.
The P3 is ideal as a mountain racer.
I have moved to the M6 which is not as solid, already had a full frontal trying the same trick of leaving strong cloud suck on full bar. the wing just disappeared! A couple of riser twists but opened well and only lost about 30 m.
The M6 does climb better, aspect ratio is king in weak lift. It is more work to launch (not that bad though), it also has better speed and glide and less workload. It has the potential to collapse which I feel the Peak 3 was almost immune to.

The M6 suits my flying pre-requisites but I am a little more careful with it. The peak 3 forced you to be active so that's why it was so solid. It was very sensitive and direct. I loved the 2 line feel (which surprised me). I would have bought the M6 in a 2 line version if they made one. 3 lines on M6 means the rear risers are quite soft and not direct like the P3.

I didn't mention the Delta 2 much in the above emails. It is a terrific glider. I couldn't really fault it as an en C.
I found I was sharing a good deal of my time at the top of the stack waiting for the start gate. It's stability when climbing gave it an advantage over the Peak 3. On glide and particularly speed the Peak3 was noticeably better (as it should be)

Not sure if everyone will understand this but I really enjoyed the Peak 3 and felt I learnt a lot whereas I didn't learn anything on the Delta 2. Everything was easy and worked as expected. The Peak 3 was a surprise in just how solid, direct and sensitive it was. I learnt to use full bar much more often. I really liked the 2 line feel and direct pitch control. Unfortunately the M6 has me a little on edge on full bar. I more often opt to fly it at half bar. There are some advantages as the glide is better at half bar and speed is still better than en C's(that I have flown with). The M6 is a great glider and I'm really enjoying it. Excellent climb, Good performance and adequate security. It suits me at the moment.

Keep in mind these are personal opinions and based on my criteria. I fly comps for fun and am not a hard core competitor. What suits me will not be the same as for other pilots with other goals, experience and environments.

I još:

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:37 pm Post subject: RE: M6 vs Peak3 vs Delta 2 Comparisons author: Fredi Bach

I did fly the Delta 2 as well and loved it. Even a full speed 75% collapse was a non issue on it. On my second flight I made a 100km+ triangle in some seriously turbulent alpine cross wind conditions. Everyone else from our club either landed early because of the turbulences or decided to fly a less turbulent and shorter route together with the wind. I decided to fly the first leg (around 45km) against the wind. I had to push speed bar all the time, often through some wild lee side stuff. However, I immediately felt save on the glider. My 4th flight was my first ever comp task and I was first in goal (Chabre Open). No question, I was really happy with the glider.

I actually planned to switch to the Alpina 2 end of season as I always prefer light gliders, but than Ozone really talked up the M6. Before I had the Delta 2, I was flying the Axis Polaris, planned EN C, but failed even EN D on the front collapse. A really direct and dynamic glider with extremely soft ears. I never had anything bigger than a 30% collapse on it and I think the reason is similar to what you describe with the Peak 3. You were always working on that wing and yes, of course you learn a lot doing that, but I never trusted the glider 100% and it was kinda tiring. Anyway, part of the decision why I switched from the Delta 2 to the M6 was that I felt that I wouldn't learn much on the Delta 2. The handling of the M6 feels surprisingly similar, just with that bit more attention you have to give it. I only had one 40-50% collapse on it till now in some really narrow lee side thermal. This is where I think the biggest difference is to the D2. The collapse opened with a lot of energy, something the D2 would never do. However, there was no need to pump anything out and all in all it was a non issue, just a completely different behavior to the D2 collapses you often have to pump out.

About performance of the M6: Everything, glide, climb, speed is better than on the D2, especially climb in weak stuff is really, really good. I had now multiple flights were I was the only one able to stay up, it really converts every little bubble into altitude. Overall, the M6 is much easier to fly IMHO than the Polaris, more relaxing and trustworthy. Not as much as the D2, but I think the step up isn't very big.

About the Peak 3, while I never had a flight with it, I know multiple pilots that have (or had) one. They all love how stable it is, but hate the performance in weak stuff. At least one of them already sold it to get an M6, as well. I only had one glide comparision and the M6 came out easily winning. It was on an XC, so not 100% still air, but weak enough stuff, and I had no problems to let him behind me as he had to thermal more to get back to my height.

All in all, I would still buy the M6 again as I think it's the best wing out there right now for me. Let's see how the real spring season will affect my thinking.

Get the _ if _:

Delta 2: If you want great accessible no stress performance
Peak 3: Learn to fly a 2 liner in rough stuff
M6: Overall best performance without too much workload

Nije navedeni trio, al je pix3i (zadnjih 10 min)

Znam, nije me niko pito, al sta ja mogu, sreca je pregolema da se ne bi podijelila. naime, konacno, nakon 8 mjeseci, tri promjene datuma isporuke, nekoliko "zadnjih, majke mi" letova na Boomu 5, vrijedne ruke prijateljskog i nesvrstanog naroda Socijalisticke Republike Vijetnama sastavile su plod intelektualne kreacije svojih vjekovnih okupatora (ne Amerikanaca, onih prethodnih). Mantru 6. Kasnjenje je razumljivo, zapravo radi se o velikom napretku u odnosu na Mantru 5 (za one koji nisu pratili, krilo koje do upucivanja ovih redova u tisak jos nije izaslo).
Moj prvi glider u L velicini (zivi se dobro kad imas zenu koja zna kuhat), iako je povrsinom manji od nekih SM modela koje sam ranije letio, dosao je spakiran na onaj tvornicki nacin koji prkosi zakonima fizike. Na ruksak u kojem je stigao necu trositi rijeci, valjda me razmazio GIN sa crossload sistemom i nekoliko vrlo korisnih dzepova. Ovako, ako je cilj bio izazvati nostalgiju za dobom kad su se parajedrilice prenosile u vrecama a ne ruksacima, potpuno su uspjeli. Samo fali ona fluorescentnoljubicasta boja i to je to. Ruku na srce, nakon treceg pakiranja uspio sam potrpati stvari tako da se moze normalno nositi do pola sata. Ipak, kaj bi ih ubilo da su prisili jos koji dzep na nekom mjestu do kojeg mozes lako doc i kad je ruksak pun i zategnut?!
Pa kad mi je tako los, kaj ne koristim stari, pitate se? E pa, pakiranje nije bas isto kao kod "normalnih" glidera. Svi ste dosad vec valjda vidjeli "jastuk" oko kojeg se pakira krilo ne bi li se sacuvala ojacanja - taj gad dodaje odredjenu debljinu paketu pa vise ne stane u manji ruksak. Isto tako, pakiranje u bilo sta osim onih fensi vreca za slaganje na komore - zaboravite. Za te pare (2600 kao promo cijena, zatezne kamate nisu uracunate), mogli bi je i serijski isporucivat s krilom (da, kao GIN, moja prva i nikad prezaljena ljubav ). Naljepnice odgovarajucih boja za sitnije popravke? Manual na USB sticku na koji jos stane i kolekcija putne pornografije? Ne budite smijesni…Tu je line plan na A5 papiru a manual je online (odmah se valjda i putna kolekcija moze osvjezit).
Budimo fer pa recimo da s krilom dodje kljucnoprivjesni otvarac za pivo te niz naljepnica kojima je moguce iskazati svoju ljubav prema firmi na bilo kojoj glatkoj, cistoj i odmascenoj povrsini te jedan sasvim solidan metalni dvostupanjski speed (s kojim se naravno, ako imas zatvoreno sjedalo, mos j…). Jel treba netko speed?
No ajd', valjda tako i otac kad donese doma dijete iz rizicne prenosene trudnoce, sretan da je stiglo u jednom komadu; njemu je najljepse, nema veze sta svima drugima njegova slatka curica izgleda kao prilicno ruzno musko derle.
Barem je prave boje. Krilo, ne dijete. Mislim, i dijete je, ali…ma, nema veze.
Poucen ranijim iskustvom, otisao sam na JPP (Japetic poslije posla) ne bih li sprijecio da dodjem po dobrom danu na brdo i skuzim da nemam jednu gurtnu, imam prekratak speed i slicno. Tragedija je u tome sto nisam isao na Jap poslije svog posla, nego punicinog, jer sam tek onda imao kome ostavit dijete (eh, da znate kako je tesko biti porodiljni naknadas ). Upamtite punicu, trebat ce nam jos kasnije. Na tom Japu, na koji sam dosao oko 18:00 taman za curionu nakon starta u nuli utvrdio sam sljedece: prilicno brzo krilo, lako se starta ledjno i u slabom vjetru, vrlo ugladjeno, zahtijeva samo neznatan impuls da bi se sprijecilo izlijetanje naprijed kod podizanja (vjerujem da se uz malo vjezbe to moze i sasvim izbjeci). Speed meksi od bilo kojeg koji sam dosad probao ali dosta dugog hoda, nisam siguran da cu uspjeti podesiti Impress 2L tako da mogu iskoristiti puni hod. U mirnom zraku handling je nesto zbog cega se oprasta sve ostalo - meke, progresivne komande u 5-6 cm omogucuju trenutno postavljanje krila u zeljeni polozaj. Okrece prakticki oko uha, bez naglasenijeg propadanja cak i u ostrijim zaokretima. Finesa po mom dojmu oko 10.5, mozda i bolja. Zadrzavanje energije i mogucnost raspolaganja istom su fantasticni - vrlo laka voznja kroz vrhove vlati trave zadnjih 30-ak m samo s energijom jednog malo ostrijeg zavoja.
Tako da sam na Semic dosao spreman, mozda s malom tremom - sta ako mi se u "pravim" termickim uvjetima krilo ne svidi? Biti 5 godina zarobljen s krilom s kojim ne mozes komunicirati? Znam neke ljude u toj situaciji (doduse ne radi se svaki put o krilu) i brrr…
Prognoza je bila nestabilno, kumulusna naoblaka s bazama 1500, lagan istok - jugoistok po vecim visinama. U dilemi Semic ili Jap presudio je mentalitet krda i tako smo se zena i ja zatekli na startu (dijete je kod punice koju smo,sjecate se, pripremili ranije) s planom da ja odletim par sati kako bih procijenio krilo u termici a onda i ona skupi koji sat kad termika malo smiri (ne na istom krilu, naravno. Lako sta je to ipak EN D, nego je moja poletna tezina 112kg, jao bi ga meni bilo s tolkom zenom). Start jos jednom prolazi sasvim uredno, bez ikakvih posebnih potreba za intervencijom s moje strane. U zraku uvjeti prilicno kilavi, Jasna je vec na pola puta do Sv. Gere i nije zadovoljna slabim dizanjima (ko joj je kriv kad ide na Geru ). Pocinjem prve sramezljive krugove. Krilo me spasava od curenja nevjerojatnim pretvaranjem svega u dizanje. U ulasku ne zaostaje, cega sam se pri ovom opterecenju bojao. Nema ni onog pravog comp zagriza u stup, ali nije lose i nekad nemati potrebu kontrolirati posrtanje pri ulasku. Malo krene naprijed, i gore. Kod ravnanja i izlaska visak brzine pretvara u penjanje. Kod korekcije kuta u stupu gad kao da jace penje. Slabo, slabo, sve do 1m/s, tako do 1000m pa van i prema Geri, odlicna prilika za ispitati finesu i mozda se popeti do baze koja tamo sasvim dobro izgleda. Nekoliko minuta kasnije, na 1500 u i dalje slabim dizanjima do 2m/s vec sam se naucio vjerovati cvrstoci napadne ivice. Padovi tlaka su od akademskog znacaja, spori, trenutno reagiraju na malo komande. Odlucim krenuti prema Novom Mestu, pojacan vjetar i zapravo zavjetrinska termika koju moram pokupiti relativno nisko nekoliko kilometara iza grebena odlican su test za krilo koje ga prolazi magna cum laude. Mislim, ocito se ne moze mjeriti s 2-linijskim "EN D" krilom (ne daj Boze s R11) ali probojnost u vjetar i sposobnost pobirnja zakosenih stupova u razini je ili nesto bolja od mog prethodnog 6 godina starog comp glidera. Odlazeci ispod baze nad samim Novim Mestom imam priliku nagaziti speed. Obzirom da imam ranije iskustvo, upravljanje C linijama odmah mi sjeda. Osjecaj je vrlo blizu onom na 2-lineru iako su naravno autoritet i direktnost utjecaja, kao i feedback krila znacajno manji zbog dodatnog reda spaga i mjesta pricvrscenja. Malo mi ide na zivce smjestaj onih gurtnica za koloture od komandi, stalno se petljaju medju prste kad hvatam C-rucke. Jedna kumulostrada mi je dosta da shvatim da je optimum za XC raspon brzina od trima do pola ili 2/3 speeda. Do polovice finesa kao da se uopce ne mijenja. Prvi put da stvarno mogu koristiti speed to fly funkciju Compea kontinuirano kontrolirajuci kolicinu speeda. Krilo je okretno, ali ne zamara prekomjernim gibanjem u tranzicijama. Jedna kriza u kojoj mi brzina omogucava povratak u stup koji sam malo kasno zakacio sa zavjetrinske strane i vrijeme je da se odlucim - prema Kumu ili ne? Koliko je glider dobro slozen govori i moja odluka - iako cu doci nisko nad teren gdje dobrih sletista nema (nagradno pitanje: gdje je najvisi dimnjak u Evropi? mala pomoc koja ujedno pokazuje tipicna sletista te regije) uopce ne dvojim mogu li spustiti ovu ticu na izohipsu u slucaju potrebe.
U jarku na zapadnom kraju Kuma pocinje prva prava RnR termika od 5-6m/s kroz koju krilo prolazi bez najmanjeg gubitka napetosti po rasponu. Da se razumijemo, to je i dalje EN D krilo koje zahtijeva stalnu kontrolu i aktivno letenje, ali je u usporedbi s prethodnicima koje sam letio daleko mirnije i stabilnije (pogotovo ako se uzme u obzir povecana trim brzina). I dalje nema zaostajanja pri ulasku u stup, cak i u jakim jezgrama premjestanje je lako i brzo, bez potrebe za jakim promjenama nagiba.
Sat i pol kasnije trebalo mi je preci brdo velicine i oblika Ravne Gore tako da navrtim sa 100 m iznad vrha sa zavjetrinske strane (ne pitajte me zasto, malo sam se bio ulijenio i nisam pazio na polozaj sunca i promjenu terena - prisustvo siroke doline) i onda prebacim na drugi kraj platoa. S 3/4 speeda pickin dim. Nagrada slijedi u vidu 6m/s do baze. U to sam, naravno, uletio s prijespomenutih 3/4 speeda - sve sto je bilo potrebno je lagano popustanje uz mali pokret C-rucki.
18:20 a biti na 2200 - covjeka je malo i sramota. Uz to, telefon zvoni vec cetvrti put pa je red da krenem dolje. Odaberem neko vece mjesto do kojeg mogu doci i krenem. Putem, nakon sto se uvjerim da cu stvarno stici tamo s dosta viska visine (iako sam planirao mozda napraviti samo zavoj da se okrenem u vjetar), probam usi. Manual preporuca povuci prvo jedno, pa drugo uho vjerojatno zato sto za savladat tlak u shark noseu trebaju dvije ruke. S usima, krilo se prilicno propinje, dosta je nemirno, a i kad ih pustim odmah imam dvije kravate. Jedina stvar u cijelom letu koja mi se nije svidjela. Dobro, to i tendencija da ako sam nagnut u stupu i prodje jaki balon po unutarnjoj strani nema onog porasta tlaka u komandi koji upozorava na priblizavanje negative. No, stabilo ih brzo rjesava a i za razliku od Booma 8 ovo krilo s malom kravatom leti ravno. Dok se priblizavam sletistu nemalo sam iznenadjen kad izmedju 300 i 100 m AGL okrenut u vjetar stojim. Pogled na instrument daje mi brzinu 3-5km/h. Taman kad pomislim kako je krilo sporo uocim na zemlji drvenu sklepanu vjetrenjacu koja se vrti tako da se uopce ne vide krakovi. Pogled preko ramena, dobro je, ostavio sam jos dovoljno livade iza, samo gas, ne mogu vjerovati da u 18:45 moram bjezati iz 1.5 m/s dizanja 100 m nad tlom?! Neposredno pred zemljom ipak me pusti naprijed tako da preletim jarak djubriva u koji bi inace bio tako lijepo upao. Pred doticanjem tla usudim se potraziti stallpoint - tlak u komandama ipak raste dovoljno da ne bi smjelo biti neocekivanih negativa u letu.
Tek nakon pola sata nagovaranja krila da udje u vrecu a zatim i u ruksak shvatim da se ne osjecam kao da sam bio u zraku skoro 5 sati i da bih zapravo mogao komotno jos dva-tri sata. Ovako, uprtim Halida na ledja i dodjem na autobusni taman deset minuta prije busa za Ljubljanu.
E da, odlucio sam ga nazvati Halid. Godinama sam letio 2-3, 3, compove, svasta, nekad s razlogom a uglavnom zato jer sam pravi Balkanski hominid. Godine su prosle, i ja a bogami i zivotne okolnosti su se promijenile, doslo je vrijeme da medju mojim krilima netko drugi bude Halid mjesto Halida
Uglavnom prvih 5 sati - skroz dobro krilo, onako ko Golf GTI. Nemos u Imolu, al na Grobniku si glavni.
p,
D.

Uglavnom prvih 5 sati - skroz dobro krilo, onako ko Golf GTI. Nemos u Imolu, al na Grobniku si glavni.


E moj Halide
Ako je M6 EN-D onda bi mnoga EN-C trebali biti kompovi ,s obzirom kakva sam sranja sve letio,ovo je krilo nekako najpitomije,usudio bih se reči poslje icepeaka7!
Niti blizu GTI-u a kamoli ENZU 2
Mislim da se netreba tekmati opče s takvim krilom jer je stvoreno za XC,Te da mu je realna ocijena ako uzmeš u obzir vitkost,perfomanse ,handling prema Enzu EN-C.Ide na speedu nema se kaj reči ali poslje 50% zaboravi finesu naspram Enzu 2.,
Slažem se s tobom Jako dobro krilo koje možeš letiti svaki dan i svaki dan izvuči maximalu,letit s njim ravnicu a i alpe .
Ali Gorbnik treba sprobat, Nije sve u glideru ,tu i tamo neki dobar prelet skrivi i sam pilot!